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The Futility of Tax Protesting

There’s a school of thought in the USA which believes the income tax is illegal, and those who believe this are inclined to want to stop paying taxes on that basis – believing they are in the right.

One man who dedicated his life to this issue is Irwin Schiff – the father of Peter Schiff, the well-known investment advisor and “truth-teller” in regard to the current economic situation.

In this video, Peter Schiff talks about his father and explains how he has always disagreed with his position – for the very same reasons I disagree with it.

To take on the government and challenge it directly, by refusing to pay income tax on the basis of your interpretation of the existing law, is to forget one vitally important fact – the government has the guns.

Or to put it more accurately, the court system cannot be used to challenge the government in this matter of government revenue – taxation. What happens is that the courts will throw out such challenges. So if you consider the courts to be capable of acting as a referee between you and the state – then you will be bitterly disappointed.

The courts are part of the government, so can never be impartial when it comes to any individual challenging the government – especially when it involves attempts to undermine the government’s revenue source, taxation.

Irwin Schiff is still in jail for his tax “crimes” – no doubt put there as a public warning to others who may consider similar tactics. So the lesson to be learned is regardless of your view that a particular tax law is invalid, illegal or whatever – it is of no consequence. The government needs your money – more and more of it – and any attempt to face off on this issue can only lead to tears down the road.

No. If you are intent on denying corrupt governments your money, then you need to be a lot smarter than just making yourself a target.

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  1. tom
    July 20th, 2009 at 07:42 | #1

    “You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance.

    Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul.”

    –Mahatma Gandhi

    the only reason this system got out of control is because of too many sheep who think like you.

    follow your conscience, despite who has the guns.

  2. July 20th, 2009 at 07:51 | #2

    Oh, I do follow my conscience – and I do not partake in the ‘evil’ as you suggest. There are many ways to opt-out of the system without becoming martyred in the process. To stand up to the state – by standing in front of the tank while it rolls over you – is stupid, especially when there are much more creative ways to engage in “civil disobedience”, and have fun while doing it.

  3. July 20th, 2009 at 08:50 | #3

    There was a chemistry professor in a large college that had some exchange students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab, the professor noticed one young man, an exchange student, who kept rubbing his back and stretching as if his back hurt.

    The professor asked the young man what was the matter? The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country – who were trying to overthrow his country’s government and install a new communist regime.

    In the midst of his story, he looked at the professor and asked a strange question: “Do you know how to catch wild pigs?” The professor thought it was a joke, and asked for the punch line. The young man said that it was no joke.

    “You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again, and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side. The pigs, which are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat that free corn again. You then slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom.
    They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.”

    The young man then told the professor – that’s exactly what he sees happening in America. The government keeps pushing us toward Communism/Socialism, and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tax exemptions, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, government health care, drugs, etc. while we continually lose our freedoms, just a little at a time.

    One should always remember two truths:

    * There is no such thing as a free lunch, and

    * You cannot hire anyone to do a job for you, cheaper than you can do it yourself.

    If you see that all of this wonderful government ‘help’ is a problem confronting the future of democracy in America, you might want to send this on to your friends.

    If you think the free ride is essential to your way of life, then you will probably delete this email. But God help you when the gate slams shut!
    For a real look at whats happening right now, goto the google home page, select Videos from the top roght hand corner, dont bother with the most watched, type NEW WORLD ORDER in the search video slot and turn up the sound to see the real world. Your real Government, the vermin who think of the world as their factory and you as the product.
    Make way for the new currency The Amero is very real. The fed cannot account for 9 trillion dollars to the senate hearing, where has all the money gone? No none will tell you. Housing, banking, insurance where?

  4. Juliette
    July 20th, 2009 at 09:19 | #4

    In New Zealand the state has it all wrapped up — the taxman takes his bite out of your pay packet long before you ever see it. No game.
    Short of giving up work and becoming a dole bludger there’s not much the average person can do except vote vindictively every three years (which merely cycles us between poisons).

  5. Peter
    July 20th, 2009 at 10:02 | #5

    It’s true that one can ‘take the Government on’ but it’s futile. Yes, they do have ‘the guns’ and are more than willing to use them on the general populus when needed, and the high flyers and corporate entities too (they get more media coverage that way which shows (mainly to the average working man) how tough they are!…….do it the right way, minimise your taxes legally.

  6. July 20th, 2009 at 15:00 | #6

    I am Beginning to see that I live in a country of cowards!,
    willing to except what ever the government sells them, no questions asked, until death do them apart!

    What ever happened to the real patriots?
    I know of only one who vocally addresses this tyranny……..
    ALEX JONES

  7. Mike
    July 20th, 2009 at 18:26 | #7

    Francis R, you are giving us all a pristine example of what happens in countries that do not enjoy the freedoms that we take for granted here in the US.
    The only reason that challenging the existing program does not work is the product of a gutless, entitlement oriented majority in the country. If all taxpayers rescinded the governments grip on our productivity, change could be achieved. As long as the government continues to hang us individually we will never be able to support the republic that our forefathers presented us with. We are a pathetic bunch of spongy wimps, Irwin Schiff was a leader of a tax protest movement and published many books to promote civil disobedience and to encourage meaningful change in IRS power and government control over the SOVEREIGN republic. The Government used him as an example of what will happen to the rest of us if we do not submit.

    Hope you all enjoy your new tax structure once the Tax and Trade, Health Care ad nauseum become reality, just like Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Medicare, Medicaid etc.

  8. July 20th, 2009 at 18:33 | #8

    There is no way to win against the government from with in the nanny state any more, it’s gone too far. They have the majority of people used to the free lunch and will allow the nanny state to use the guns against the rich in order to keep getting that free lunch. There’s just too many of them now. It ends only when they run out of rich people to rob. The only way to win is get out of the system while you can. And that door is something people expect to close real quick as the state figures out that money is leaving and what is not leaving is running out. Get out while you still can.

    For those of you who have not tried Soverign Life, it does have some good resources. Some of which I already knew, some of which were a new twist on things, and some just plain new to me. And I’ve traveled a bit in the past. Use what resources you have and get yourself out of the nanny state while it’s still possible, while it’s still legal to do so. Or don’t complain when it all goes up and you lose everything. Take it from someone who knows what’s on the table, it’s coming.

  9. Juliette
    July 20th, 2009 at 18:45 | #9

    Being so low down on the financial food chain I can only dream. I also see what is happening and what is coming (think ‘four horsemen’).
    There’s no way to challenge the system from within, one must escape or set the sails to the wind. Or … with enough support (this is where it breaks down) simply refuse to take part; i.e. stop working (think Atlas Shrugged).
    Reaction? Either collapse of state (won’t happen) armed enforcers (possible) or ancient-style decimation ‘pour encourager les autres’.
    Go with David, if you can.

  10. Pat
    July 20th, 2009 at 19:54 | #10

    On July 11, 2007 an Attorney from Louisiana, Tom Cryer beat the IRS in Court. He was judged NOT Guilty of “willful failure” to file income tax return charges by a unanimous jury of 12 citizens…

    Separate subject. I suggest that you go to the following website, you will learn a lot!!!

    http://www.americansrepublicparty.org

  11. July 20th, 2009 at 21:24 | #11

    I think both options are reasonable. You can ‘stay and fight’ or run and protect your life. It is a personal choice. Certainly Irwin Schiff’s approach sounds like a lost battle, but voting and/or making your ideas heard may result in a slow turning of the large ship of state. You can become a talk show host or start a blog to make your ideas heard as well.

    I admire the people of Iran who are protesting despite great risk to their freedom and lives. They may feel they have no other reasonable options, which is part of what drives them.

    But David’s approach is entirely reasonable. It all depends on how much of an effect you think you’ll have. It is entirely reasonable to just ‘get out’ – to escape what you see as a partial prison – and live your life outside of these increasingly repressive systems.

    And, perhaps in his own way, David is actually helping the situation more by depriving these systems of victims. Maybe someone will wake up and realize that many people want to get out of the country or make their money underground – and that the country is losing good people and or money this way. Rational people may notice that their country, deprived of producers, will slowly fall apart. Perhaps some of these people will figure out that freedom brings prosperity – and will try to move in the direction of freedom again.

  12. July 21st, 2009 at 04:03 | #12

    Nearly 100% of those in America, and all former British colonies, who teach some sort of income tax fighting technique or tax avoidance have no idea how or why the people are treated as slaves subject to having the fruits of their labour confiscated/harvested by the farmers – the tax collectors.
    [Farming originally meant tax collection.]

    In fact, it appears that most are actually dragging ‘red herrings’ about to mislead those who would carry on the battle.

    For Americans, the means is that which is stated within the 2nd 13th Amendment to the Constitution, in conjunction with the property right of the State, and a legal maxim arising out of the property right which we normally see applied in real estate. For other former British colonies, it is the property right of the Crown of the City of London that is used.

    You will need to go to my website and download a file called the “Name Game Blog” (all info free) to get the full picture of what I have said. With that knowledge, you can then proceed to proper avenues to protect your assets properly and maybe even totally avoid income tax without confrontation.

  13. Jimmy bob
    July 22nd, 2009 at 04:03 | #13

    Best is to avoid the battle!

    Find a job that is ‘outside’ of the system. Bank in Silence. Move funds virtually. Live in a home and drive a car ‘not in your name’, vacation to countries that have less constraints. Always appear broke. NEVER do ‘court’.

    Never scream in the Jungle. Then nobody will bother you.

    Ask me how I know all this? – Yes been there! Studied under Eldon, and many other. I have no more time to fight.

    Don’t bitch. Get Educated. Take control. Ignore your resistors for they do not know any better. Just change your lifestyle!

    The Governments are too corrupt to fight. Avoid the bullies. It is not easy, but is satisfying.

  14. Mike, of by Definition
    July 23rd, 2009 at 05:56 | #14

    You (we?) help teach people to be more Individual if not independent, independent if not beyond “social” (political?) of doing things for ourselves. (Where “communicative” is the only social I need.. But if only people (other people?) knew what communicative is?!.) When you do things by yourself the “sky” is the limit, in what you can do in what there is to do (as an Individual) I Feel as understand.. There’d be “nothing” political about that, but, oh so much “more” if not otherwise. Where I’m at with that.

    Do, with all you have, perhaps, of living within your means, surely, only what you understand and agree to do with the option of changing your mind in that respect, and being as up front as you can be about it?!.

    I pay taxes as I would shoot bears. Taxes are what you have to pay (do? perhaps) and that not need be anything at all where you don’t have to, I Feel as understand. (I need to pay taxes like I need to shoot bears)

    It’s somewhat of a “jungle” out there. (New jungle?) Get used to it, and pay only what you “have” to pay, for, (in that respect?!.) where you’re smart enough for that, like David! and whoever, if not the rest of us, of “Communication,” Thereof

    Communication?: What makes Individuals out of loners and socialists (or whatever?) and sets them “free,” as of Understanding More (for themselves, Thereof

    There’s also nothing especially “social” about that, outside of Communication.. [Of] How I pick and choose my friends (and enemies) and where I go and what I do, of what I am, Thereof.. .

    Best wishes to all of us in that respect of Freedom, of “Understanding,” and how that’s done

    What makes an “Individual” and makes it Communication, to me.. .

    Pay what you will.

  15. Donald
    July 28th, 2009 at 14:40 | #15

    Civil disobedience against a corrupt government is a necessity. However; how many comply with seat belt laws? The corrupt system just keeps chipping away. Marc Stevens author of adventures in legal land, Google it, says it better than I do but here is my attempt.
    If jurisdiction is not pleaded in the complaint, subsequent oral or written reference to claimed sources of jurisdiction do not suffice. McNutt v G.M.A.C., 298 US 178.
    Notification of legal responsibility is “the first essential of due process of law.” Connally v General Construction Co., 269 US 385, 391 Jurisdiction, once challenged, is to be proven, not by the court, but by the party attempting to assert jurisdiction. The burden of proof of jurisdiction lies with the asserter. The court is only to rule on the sufficiency of the proof tendered. Se McNutt v. GMAC, 298 US 178. The origins of this doctrine of law may be found in Maxfield’s Lessee v Levy, 4 US 308.
    “The law requires proof of jurisdiction to appear on the record of the administrative agency and all administrative proceedings” [Hagans v. Lavine, 415 U.S. 528]
    The burden shifts to the court to prove jurisdiction.” Rosemond v. Lambert, 469 F2d 416. “Court must prove on the record, all jurisdiction facts related to the jurisdiction asserted.” Lantana v. Hopper, 102 F2d 188;
    “A court has no jurisdiction to determine its own jurisdiction, for a basic issue in any case before a tribunal is its power to act, and a court must have the authority to decide that question in the first instance.” Rescue Army v. Municipal Court of Los Angeles, 171 P2d 8; 331 US 549, 91 L. ed. 1666, 67 S.Ct. 1409.
    “Jurisdiction, once challenged, cannot be assumed and must be decided.” [Maine v. Thiboutot, 100 S. Ct. 250
    "Once challenged, jurisdiction cannot be ‘assumed’, it must be proved to exist." [Stuck v. Medical Examiners, 94 Ca2d 751.211 P2s 389]
    A plaintiff must allege personal injury fairly traceable to defendant’s allegedly unlawful conduct and likely to be redressed by the requested relief.” Allen v. Wright, 468 U.S. 737 (1984
    1. The accused must be properly identified; identified in such a fashion there is no room for mistaken identity. The individual must be singled out from all others; otherwise, anyone could be subject to arrest and trial without benefit of “wrong party” defense. Almost always the means of identification is a person’s proper name, BUT, any means of identification is equally valid if said means differentiates the accused without doubt. (By the way, there is no constitutionally valid requirement that you must identify yourself to the judge or to anyone.) For stop and identify issues (4th Amendment) see Brown v. Texas, 443 US 47 and Kolender v Lawson, 461 US 352. Is accuser present?
    4. The accuser must be named. He may be an officer or a third party. Some positively identifiable person (human being) must accuse. Some certain person must take responsibility for the making of the accusation, not an agency or an institution. This is the only valid means by which a citizen may begin to face his accuser. Also, the injured party (corpus delicti) must make the accusation. Hearsay evidence may not be provided. Anyone else testifying that he heard that another party was injured does not qualify as direct evidence
    5. The accusation must be made under penalty of perjury. If perjury cannot reach the accuser, there is no accusation. Otherwise, anyone may accuse another falsely without risk.
    In Smith v US, 360 US 1, the court held that a constitutional right to an indictment could not be waived by the defendant and that a proceeding in violation of this constitutional requirement nullified the jurisdiction of the court.
    “(A) statute which either forbids or requires the doing of an act in terms so vague that men of common intelligence must necessarily guess at its meaning and differ as to its application, violates the first essential of due process of law.” Connally v General Construction Co., 269 US 385, 391. And “Void for vagueness simply means that criminal responsibility should not attach where one could not reasonably understand that his contemplated conduct is proscribed.” U.S. v National Dairy Products, 372 US 29, 32.
    The elementary doctrine that the constitutionality of a legislative act is open to attack only by persons whose rights are affected thereby, applies to statute relating to administrative agencies, the validity of which may not be called into question in the absence of a showing of substantial harm, actual or impending, to a legally protected interest directly resulting from the enforcement of the statute.” Board of Trade v. Olson, 262 US 1; 29 ALR 2d 1051.
    World-Wide Volkswagen Corp. v. Woodson
    The Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment limits the power of a state court to exercise personal jurisdiction against a nonresident defendant. Due process requires that the defendant be given adequate notice of the suit. A state court may exercise personal jurisdiction over a nonresident only so long as there exist “minimum contacts” between the defendant and the forum state.
    The 14th Amendment provides protection against inconvenient litigation, typically described in terms of “reasonableness” or “fairness”. “Does not offend ‘traditional notions of fair play and substantial justice.” The relationship between the defendant and forum must be “reasonable.” The burden on the defendant is to be balanced against other factors, including the plaintiff’s interest in obtaining convenient and effective relief.
    The Due Process Clause “does not contemplate that a state may make binding a judgment in personam against an individual or corporate defendant with which the state has no contacts, ties or relations.” Even if the defendant would suffer minimal or no inconvenience from being forced to litigate before the tribunals of another State; even if the forum State has a strong interest in applying its law to the controversy; even if the forum State is the most convenient location for litigation, the Due Process Clause may sometimes act to divest the State of its power to render a valid judgment. Now it is your turn to stand up

  16. July 29th, 2009 at 08:59 | #16

    PT Rule-

    Don’t fight “City Hall” with tax protests or otherwise.

    Don’t get emotionally involved or upset with the foolishness of politicians. They come & go.

    As a PT you’ve already got a divorce from them.
    If you are not a PT, consider the option of just opting out of the opressive system you were probably born into.

    Why waste time on “protests” that will cause you grief when you can spend your time more profitably & enjoyably …

    Doing whatever perverse, fattening or unhealthy things U really have fun doing.. . . . And if that includes protesting & saving the world, OK — Just do it from outside the jurisdiction where they can take away your assets and put your ass in jail.

  17. Anthony N.
    July 29th, 2009 at 16:36 | #17

    If you want to know more on the income tax, look up http://www.freeenterprisesociety.com I have been a member with them for years and they seem to have the best luck in dealing with criminal charges of failure to file. They have been very successful in beating the IRS at their own game. Mostly by saying that the tax forms (1040X) are illegal in that they don’t comply with statues requiring a OMB number and expiration date. They don’t comply because the forms are illegal and there is no statue requiring you to file. There are also many ideas that point out the illegality of the income tax but the courts are truly set against you and in favor of the government. You can’t take them on by saying the income tax is illegal but by finding other flaws in the system. I haven’t paid taxes in 13 years and am running into problems with tax levies. But there are ways to fight them and I am learning more and more each time. I worry more about the civil and financial headaches they cause more so then the criminal aspects. They can harrass you more with bank levies and wage garnishments if you don’t know how to fight them and make sure that all the required letters they must mail to you including the right to a hearing are followed. As long as you can prevent them from getting to the levy stage, you have won. I have learned to do mostly without credit and without the traditional banking. The less money you give them, the more power you take from them. If only more people would stop filing and stop paying in taxes. Just think what 10% of the population can do. We don’t need everybody to do it, just enough to wake the others up.

  18. August 4th, 2009 at 07:14 | #18
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